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him；〃 Socrates inquired of the speaker； 〃in case he failed to understand
their commands in any point； to ask for an explanation？〃
＇17＇ Lit。 〃Nomothetes。〃 See 〃Hell。〃 II。 iii。 2； Dem。 706。 For
Charicles see Lys。 〃c。 Eratosth。〃 S。 56； Aristot。 〃Pol。〃 v。 6。 6。
＇18＇ See Diog。 Laert。 II。 v。 （〃Socr。〃）
＇19＇ i。e。 ｛to ton etto logon kreitto poiein｝； 〃of making the worse
appear the better cause。〃 Cf。 Arist。 〃Clouds。〃
＇20＇ See Dio Chrys。 〃Or。〃 43。
〃Certainly；〃 the two assented。
Then Socrates： I am prepared to obey the laws； but to avoid
transgression of the law through ignorance I need instruction： is it on the
supposition that the art of words tends to correctness of statement or to
incorrectness that you bid us abstain from it？ for if the former； it is clear
we must abstain from speeking correctly； but if the latter； our endeavour
should be to amend our speech。
To which Charicles； in a fit of temper； retorted： In consideration of
your ignorance；＇21＇ Socrates； we will frame the prohibition in language
better suited to your intelligence： we forbid you to hold any conversation
whatsoever with the young。
＇21＇ See Aristot。 〃de Soph。 El。〃 183 b7。
Then Socrates： To avoid all ambiguity then； or the possibility of my
doing anything else than what you are pleased to command； may I ask you
to define up to what age a human being is to be considered young？
For just so long a time （Charicles answered） as he is debarred from
sitting as a member of the Council；＇22＇ as not having attained to the
maturity of wisdom； accordingly you will not hold converse with any one
under the age of thirty。
＇22＇ The Boule or Senate。 See W。 L。 Newman； 〃Pol。 Aristot。〃 i。 326。
Soc。 In making a purchase even； I am not to ask； what is the price of
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this？ if the vendor is under the age of thirty？
Cha。 Tut； things of that sort： but you know； Socrates； that you have a
way of asking questions； when all the while you know how the matter
stands。 Let us have no questions of that sort。
Soc。 Nor answers either； I suppose； if the inquiry concerns what I
know； as； for instance； where does Charicles live？ or where is Critias to be
found？
Oh yes； of course； things of that kind （replied Charicles）； while Critias
added： But at the same time you had better have done with your
shoemakers； carpenters； and coppersmiths。＇23＇ These must be pretty well
trodden out at heel by this time； considering the circulation you have given
them。
＇23＇ Cf。 Plat。 〃Gorg。〃 491 A； 〃Symp。〃 221 E； Dio Chrys。 〃Or。〃 55； 560
D； 564 A。
Soc。 And am I to hold away from their attendant topics alsothe just；
the holy； and the like？
Most assuredly （answered Charicles）； and from cowherds in particular；
or else see that you do not lessen the number of the herd yourself。
Thus the secret was out。 The remark of Socrates about the cattle had
come to their ears； and they could not forgive the author of it。
Perhaps enough has been said to explain the kind of intimacy which
had subsisted between Critias and Socrates； and their relation to one
another。 But I will venture to maintain that where the teacher is not
pleasing to the pupil there is no education。 Now it cannot be said of Critias
and Alcibiades that they associated with Socrates because they found him
pleasing to them。 And this is true of the whole period。 From the first their
eyes were fixed on the headship of the state as their final goal。 During the
time of their imtimacy with Socrates there were no disputants whom they
were more eager to encounter than professed politicians。
Thus the story is told of Alcibiadeshow before the age of twenty he
engaged his own guardian； Pericles； at that time prime minister of the state；
in a discussion concerning laws。
Alc。 Please； Pericles； can you teach me what a law is？
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Per。 To be sure I can。
Alc。 I should be so much obliged if you would do so。 One so often
hears the epithet 〃law…abiding〃 applied in a complimentary sense； yet； it
strikes me； one hardly deserves the compliment； if one does not know
what a law is。
Per。 Fortunately there is a ready answer to your difficulty。 You wish to
know what a law is？ Well； those are laws which the majority； being met
together in conclave； approve and enact as to what it is right to do； and
what it is right to abstain from doing。
Alc。 Enact on the hypothesis that it is right to do what is good？ or to
do what is bad？
Per。 What is good； to be sure； young sir； not what is bad。
Alc。 Supposing it is not the majority； but； as in the case of an oligarchy；
the minority； who meet and enact the rules of conduct； what are these？
Per。 Whatever the ruling power of the state after deliberation enacts as
our duty to do； goes by the name of laws。
Alc。 Then if a tyrant； holding the chief power in the state； enacts rules
of conduct for the citizens； are these enactments law？
Per。 Yes； anything which a tyrant as head of the state enacts； also goes
by the name of law。
Alc。 But； Pericles； violence and lawlessnesshow do we define them？
Is it not when a stronger man forces a weaker to do what seems right to
himnot by persuasion but by compulsion？
Per。 I should say so。
Alc。 It would seem to follow that if a tyrant； without persuading the
citizens； drives them by enactment to do certain thingsthat is
lawlessness？
Per。 You are right； and I retract the statement that measures passed by a
tyrant without persuasion of the citizens are law。
Alc。 And what of measures passed by a minority； not by persuasion of
the majority； but in the exercise of its power only？ Are we； or are we not；
to apply the term violence to these？
Per。 I think that anything which any one forces another to do without
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persuasion； whether by enactment or not； is violence rather than law。
Alc。 It would seem that everything which the majority； in the exercise
of its power over the possessors of wealth； and without persuading them；
chooses to enact； is of the nature